Tuesdays with Corey interview with Rhonda Small, Lindsey G. Cambardella, and Katy Galli
Rhonda Small worked corporate (Dow Chemical, Carter Wallace, Venture Capitol company) until the 1990's when she stayed home full time with two sons. She did help my husband during that time when she could with the two Harley Davidson dealerships, and Honda dealership.
In the early 2000's, she was a partner in a small boutique shop called the White Rabbit in Marietta, and did that for several years, but then her family had a residence and business in St. Croix, as well, so she sold her portion.
Her husband and several Harley dealers started a call center to the motorcycle industry in the Virgin Islands. If she knew she would have been running it soon, she would have paid more attention to it!!
After Earl's bout of Esophageal Cancer in 2007, and his death in 2008, she went to St. Croix while also watching over the dealerships and his other entities. In a flash, everything in her world changed. When she completed the business in St. Croix, she came back to Atlanta and finalized the sale of the dealerships, ran the airport, and helped with her elderly parents.
She continues to run the airport, but began volunteering for the Esophageal Cancer Awareness Association on the board of directors. It is an all volunteer organization that raises awareness, support and donates to research.
Lindsey G. Cambardella is CEO of Translation Station, Inc., a full-service translation and interpretation company providing services to both public and private sectors worldwide, founded by Phyllis Stallman in 1998. Its language professionals are experienced in almost every industry, including law, business, medicine, education, and other technical fields. Prior to joining Translation Station, Inc. in late 2017, Cambardella spent five years as a transactional attorney in the public and private sectors but was drawn toward the business world. She waited for the right opportunity before making the leap, and joining the team at Translation Station was the perfect fit. It is an exciting time for the languages services industry in this increasingly interconnected and ever-changing world.
Lindsey Cambardella is a graduate of the University of Georgia School of Law and also holds an M.A from the University of Missouri and a B.S from Georgia State University. A native of Dunwoody, GA, Lindsey now resides in Chamblee, GA with her husband, Mario. Lindsey is active in the community, including being the founder of The Village, a group for women business owners and leaders living and/or working in Chamblee, Brookhaven, and nearby. The group’s mission is to create a support network of women business owners and leaders in their own community and to bring valuable resources to the group’s members. After all, “it takes a village.”
Katy Galli is a member of the leadership team at the Corporate Business RadioX® studio in Atlanta, and is proud to assist the BRX® team in their pursuit to tell 1 million positive business stories. Katy is an entrepreneur and advocate for the student-athlete. She is the creator, host, and producer of the Keep Moving Forward podcast where she interviews former professional and collegiate athletes about how to make a successful career transition out of the sporting world and into “the real world.” Katy is certified as both a CrossFit-Level 1 trainer and a USA Track and Field coach.
Intro: Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX Studios in Atlanta, Georgia, it's time for Atlanta Business Radio, spotlighting the city's best businesses and the people who lead them.
Katy Galli: Hi, everyone. And welcome to another episode of Atlanta Business Radio. I'm Katy Galli, And I'm joined today by Corey Rieck because it's a very special episode of Tuesdays with Corey. How are you doing, Corey?
Corey Rieck: Very good. Katy. Thank you very much.
Katy Galli: So, what's been going on with you?
Corey Rieck: Well, today, we have a great installment on Tuesdays with Corey. And of course, what we do on the show is we talk about the many positive contributions that female executives are making to their companies, communities, and industries. And today, we have an excellent show. We are joined today by none other than Katy Galli, who is a-
Katy Galli: She sounds familiar.
Corey Rieck: ... who is a corporate member of the leadership team here at Business RadioX. Katy, welcome.
Katy Galli: Thank you.
Corey Rieck: We're also joined by Rhonda Small, who has vast experience with businesses located both the United States and abroad. Rhonda, welcome.
Rhonda Small: Thank you so much.
Corey Rieck: And also, Lindsey Cambardella, who is the CEO of Translation Station. Lindsey, welcome.
Lindsey Cambardella: Thank you so much.
Corey Rieck: Well, Katy, we're going to start off with you.
Katy Galli: Okay.
Corey Rieck: You went to high school in New Jersey.
Katy Galli: I did.
Corey Rieck: And then, you came down here to go to school at Oglethorpe. Did you have to escape the winter? I mean, how exactly-
Katy Galli: A little bit. Yeah. So, I grew up in New Jersey. But both of my parents, my mom grew up in Georgia, and my dad went to Georgia Tech. And so, I have an older brother and a younger sister. And we all just envisioned one day coming back down to Georgia. And when I was applying for schools, my parents, they used actually go on dates to the Georgia Shakespeare Theater on Oglethorpe campus, and they just knew that I would like it because it was a small school, small atmosphere. But a big selling point for me was I really wanted to run track in college. And it's a small division three school. So, when I visited the campus, I fell in love with it, and I wanted to be a D3 athlete. So, that was what I decided. Just move from New Jersey down to Georgia. And then, my whole family actually followed. My brother went to Georgia Tech. My sister went to Georgia Tech. And then, I went to Oglethorpe. And my parents didn't see a reason to stay in New Jersey anymore. So, we all moved down here.
Corey Rieck: So, you're a bit of a trendsetter. From reviewing your bio, you did a lot more than run track. I mean, you made it to the NC2As. You had a great career there.
Katy Galli: Thank you.
Corey Rieck: How did you balance being an athlete and school because you did well in school too. You didn't just show up there. I mean, you did well there also.
Katy Galli: I like school. It was fun, but that was the beauty of being-
Corey Rieck: You realize a college student that says that she likes school. I heard that right, right?
Katy Galli: know I'm a nerd. It's fine. But, yeah. I mean, I loved school. But that was the beauty of going to a division for a university. It allowed you to really be ... I mean it, the term student athlete, it really promoted being a student first and an athlete second. And what I really loved most about track and, I mean, being an athlete at any university, really, you have that structure, and you have that schedule of, "I have to be at practice this time. I have a meet this weekend or a competition this weekend," and you have to backtrack, so you see what assignments that you have due, or what tests that you have, and you have to work your week around that. So, it really helped me kind of develop a schedule and develop time management. So, I really didn't have an excuse to not be a good student and a good athlete because I was given all the resources to do so.
Corey Rieck: It was outstanding. And also, if I saw this right, when you were there at Oglethorpe, were you really in RA?
Katy Galli: I was. I was a resident assistant. Yeah.
Corey Rieck: On purpose?
Katy Galli: Yes. I loved being in RA. It was a lot of fun. It was just for my senior year, but yeah. I mean, I got to do different activities and implement different events for my campus. I also got to live alone, which is pretty nice for my senior year, so.
Corey Rieck: Yeah. Did you enjoy what went with that?
Katy Galli: Yeah, I learned a lot of leadership skills, and it really forced me out of my comfort zone. One of the big things was I struggled a lot with public speaking, and just being in front of people, and interacting with people in general. So, being-
Corey Rieck: You know none of us believe that at all.
Katy Galli: But to say that I'm in podcasting now, it's ridiculous for me to think about, but it's true. I mean, at that time, it was so scary for me, and it really forced me out of my comfort zone having to interact with people and deal with them, especially if something went wrong, having to be in the midst of a situation, and kind of deal with that.
Corey Rieck: So, when you were in school, you were an Academic All-American. Is that right?
Katy Galli: I never quite made it to Academic All-American, but I was on an all-academic team. So, you had to be top five in the nation or top 10 in the nation to be All-Academic or an Academic All-American. And so, I was on an all-academic team, but I didn't make it into the top 10 as an athlete.
Corey Rieck: What events did you do when you were running with the track team?
Katy Galli: My main event was the triple jump. So, it's kind of an obscure event. It's a hop, skip, and a jump into the sand. And I also did the 100-meter hurdles, and I was on the relay teams too, so.
Corey Rieck: So, when you graduated from Oglethorpe 2015, walk us through the first couple of jobs that you had, and tell us about your thought process there.
Katy Galli: Yeah. So, when I graduated, I felt really lost and aimless. I didn't know what I was going to do next. I applied for a bunch of jobs. I went on interviews, and I got some job offers, but I just really didn't want to enter into corporate America because, truthfully, the only thing I ever wanted to be was an athlete. I wanted to go to the Olympics. I had high aspirations in that arena. But when I graduated, [indiscernible] being my main event. I was five feet short of even qualifying for Team USA. And so, it was just a completely unrealistic dream. So, the advice I received from college counselors and advisors was, "Well, you have to get a real job," which is very sound advice, but I just didn't want to do that.
And so, I moved back home for a while. And my dad and my mom have been serial entrepreneurs their whole life. And so, my dad said, "If you want to try, come up with an idea for your own business, you're living at home. So, just try it. Why not?" So, I came up with a dog bed business called MallardMade in the USA. So, I had an old lab at the time, and he struggled with getting up out of his bed. So, I created or I designed a bed to help him kind of stand up easier with the way that it was embroidered. And it was MallardMade in the USA because I was holding tight to the Olympic dream that I wanted to represent my country in some way. So, I learned a lot about contract sewing and manufacturing in the US because that was my selling point was I wanted my products made in the United States. So, I had my dog bed business. And going back to the time management and the structure, trying to keep a schedule for my day.
I also started a Disney blog because I love Disney. I woke up in the morning, wanted to have something to do, and then set up my routine, set it up for success, because that's what I had been taught through sports. So, I had my Disney blog. And one day, I stumbled through Etsy. I saw a woman who started her own Minnie Mouse ears shop, and she was making do-it-yourself projects, and I thought it was really interesting. So, I reached out to her and asked if I could send her questions over email to interview her for my blog. And she sent them back, and she was so excited. And I published it a week later on my blog.
And then, that day, I had gotten more hits to my site than I ever had before. And it was because she shared it, her family shared, her friends shared the post. And I just realized I kind of tapped into this niche of telling people's stories. And then, I kept telling people stories. I went into this Disneypreneur thing. My blog focused on people who had shops centered around Disney, and then kind of morphed from there.
I learned about podcasting and how that's a better medium to tell people's story. So, I just started a podcast, and I changed the name to keep moving forward because I realized I didn't want to just interview Disney people. I wanted to interview people I'd look up to my whole life. So, I started interviewing athletes too and other entrepreneurs. And today, I mean, fast-forward two years now since I've started keep moving forward, it's niched into focusing on former collegiate and professional athletes who successfully transitioned out of the world of athletics and into the real world because that was the resource I would have wanted when I graduated. I would have wanted to hear these stories to help me successfully transition.
Corey Rieck: That's extremely helpful. Obviously, it's very helpful having been a college student, well, let's just say some time ago. It would be very useful to have somebody that has real world experience to come back and say, "Hey, do this, not that," kind of a thing.
Katy Galli: Yeah.
Corey Rieck: One thing I noticed, you obviously love animals, and you did an internship in a veterinary office. Is that right?
Katy Galli: I did, yeah, for a summer.
Corey Rieck: No aspirations to become a veterinarian or anything?
Katy Galli: I did. Yeah, I did. I wanted to be a veterinarian for a while. I mean, I did learn a lot at that internship but I realized I didn't want to be in school for that long. I was really ready to get out and do something. So, I decided not to go the route of veterinary school. But yeah, I did love pets, and that was another facet of why I started Mallardmade too.
Corey Rieck: How did you land at Business RadioX?
Katy Galli: So, I guess it was my one year anniversary two months ago. Last year, I was featured on a show here. It was called Biz Radio U, and it was hosted by Kennesaw State University students. And I met two of the students who hosted it. They were doing a rapid networking event at KSU. And I went there, and I met them. And they invited me on the show. And after the show, Lee and Stone came in the room, and they were just talking to me about a podcast and what I do. And they said, if I ever want to just meet up with them and talk to them about a business model or whatever I'm trying to learn about, they were very gracious, and they said I could set a meeting with them and come in.
So, I did. The next week, I set a meeting, and I came in, talked to them for about two hours. And I left feeling so excited because they had helped me so much. And then, a week later, they reached back out to me and asked for me to come back in because they want to know if I wanted to do some work with them, and just interim work to figure things out. And it's been a year. And my role has grown with them. They just can't get rid of me now. I mean, being in this room, and having the opportunity to listen to these stories, and sometimes take part in these stories, and I'm speaking with individuals, I've developed more relationships with people than I ever dreamed of in the past three years since I graduated college.
Corey Rieck: Yeah. They've done a tremendous job of branding. And I think that the Business RadioX brand is synonymous with building relationships. And you've been a tremendous support here for my show. And that whole story that you just told sounds very, very familiar. So, you've been a producer. You have your own podcast. I want to know more about your Keep Moving Forward podcasts, which I think is very cool.
Katy Galli: Thank you.
Corey Rieck: Tell us more about that.
Katy Galli: Yeah. So, like I said, I interview primarily former and some current professional and collegiate athletes who successfully transitioned out of the world of athletics and into the real world. So, that, sometimes, looks like they started their own business, whether it's a gym or, sometimes, it doesn't have anything to do with athletics. It's just whatever business they started, or they entered into corporate America, how they've grown, and how they've achieved high levels of status in their current job. But it's all about what did they tie themselves to. And it's using everything that they learned in their athletic experience throughout their entire lives to help propel them forward.
Katy Galli: So, it's keep moving forward, utilizing everything that you learned your whole life, specifically in the athletic context to help propel you forward. And that was very much my story. And I learned it was a lot of people's stories because when I did graduate, I was desperately looking for a resource to help me. And I was lamenting, and it was a little traumatic. But really, my whole life revolved around sports. So, when that organized athletics were no longer there, I didn't know really who I was. I felt like I lost my identity. So, I would go online and look and read blogs of people who felt the same way. But there didn't seem to be any resource out there. It was people really just taking to the internet and being upset about the fact that their athletic careers were over. So, I wanted to create a resource that someone could go to to maybe help them in that transition.
Corey Rieck: Who are some of the most interesting folks that you've interviewed on your podcast?
Katy Galli: I have a lot of favorites, but early on I had the chance to speak to Rudy Ruettiger.
Corey Rieck: Oh, yeah.
Katy Galli: Yeah. The Notre Dame football player. And they have that movie after him. I love Rudy. And then-
Corey Rieck: That was a great movie.
Katy Galli: Yeah, it's a great movie. It's so inspiring. Every time I need to pick me up, I go to that movie. It's my go-to movie. Vince Papale. He was-
Corey Rieck: Another great story.
Katy Galli: Yeah. Invincible, that's a great movie. Evander Holyfield, the Boxer. He had a great story to tell too.
Corey Rieck: Absolutely.
Katy Galli: I had Shannon Miller and Dominique Moceanu, some Olympic gymnasts on there. And a lot of, too, just teammates that I've had, people I've interacted with, and from Division 1 to Division 3, athletes, pro athletes, it's really interesting, just the whole gamut. I mean, if you were a club athlete to a pro athlete, everybody has such an amazing story. But it's all tethered to the point of going through that transition of loss of identity and trying to rediscover yourself after you're no longer an athlete, but always using what you learned to help propel you forward.
Corey Rieck: Yeah. I think, certainly some great stories there. Rudy, for those of you that don't know, that's the story of the gentleman that wanted to play football at Notre Dame. And I don't know how much of the movie is accurate, but he stuck it out, and he was on the practice squad for a number of years, ended up getting to suit up for a game. Just a great, great story.
Katy Galli: Yeah.
Corey Rieck: And Evander Holyfield, of course, is also a great story. And it's not widely known that when he was a senior in high school, he was only, what, 5'8, 150 pounds?
Katy Galli: He was a little. Yeah.
Corey Rieck: Then, he got his growth spurt after high school. Who would be your dream guest for your podcast, do you think?
Katy Galli: Right now, my dream guest is definitely Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. So, when I released Episode 80 back in October, I decided to do a 20-week social media pursuit to try and get him for episode 100 of my show. And I just took to social media, and I would tag him in. And I planned out all these posts. I, actually, made a video of me doing some athletic things to try and get his attention. I applied for his ... he has a new show coming out called the Titan Games. Every day, I would post at him, I had a reminder on my phone telling me where I was supposed to post, who I was supposed to tag, and everything on social media.
Katy Galli: And while I didn't directly reach him by Episode 100, I grew in listenership, and I just had a lot of people rally behind me and get so excited about the prospect of having The Rock on my show. While I didn't necessarily get him yet, I did actually skip over Episode 100. It's reserved for him. So, I went right to Episode 101 because, eventually, I believe I can get him for Episode 100.
Corey Rieck: Just in case you're listening, Dwayne, we're holding that for you.
Katy Galli: Yeah, exactly. So, still open, whether it's next week, or in 10 years. Just Episode 100 is for him. But really, what I learned over that 20-week process of how people will really just get behind you if they believe in you, believe in your mission, they want to support you, they want to see you succeed. And that really was the most incredible thing that I learned from that.
Corey Rieck: Do you still run now? Do you run races? You obviously look like you're in excellent shape. How do you stay that way?
Katy Galli: So, I ran my first half marathon two weeks ago in Disneyworld, actually.
Corey Rieck: And?
Katy Galli: It was a lot of fun.
Corey Rieck: How was it?
Katy Galli: It was so much fun. I stopped and took a lot of pictures and videos, but it was a great experience. And when I graduated searching for what I was trying to do next, I tried to find myself in sports. So, I played every sport I could find in Atlanta. I joined a basketball team. I played rugby for a while, soccer, did road races. And I actually, eventually, found CrossFit. A friend, referred me and she said that I would love just the atmosphere of it and the competitive nature of it. And I did. I fell in love with CrossFit. And rather than playing all these different sports, I just decided to focus in on that. And I'm actually a CrossFit trainer too now. I'm a coach right down the road from here.
Corey Rieck: Outstanding stuff. So, if you could give the younger version of Katy some advice, what would that be?
Katy Galli: Well, I guess I think back to just the mindset I had when I graduated college thinking that sports really were it for me. And just recognizing that even though I was an athlete, and that's what I hung my hat on my whole life, that there's so much more than that. And it's not that everybody who is an athlete has to be. Because you turned pro, your life has to revolve around athletics your whole life. It's what did you learn in that process? What did you learn? The leadership skills, and the time management skills, and everything that you learned, no matter what season of life you're in, you can carry it forward with you. So, it's really just to keep moving forward through every transition and every season that you're in.
Corey Rieck: If there was a young lady that wanted to follow you in your footsteps, what would you tell her?
Katy Galli: I mean, I would just tell her to persevere. One of the taglines of my podcast is, "Giving up is for rookies," and it's from a Disney movie. And it's kind of silly, but I like that. It's just continuously persevere because you might hit a wall, you might fail, but just fail forward, and never stop pushing forward because giving up is just you're accepting defeat, and you shouldn't just don't ever do that. Just giving up is for rookies.
Corey Rieck: Katy, if our listenership wanted to get in touch with you, do you have an email address or a phone number that you could pass out?
Katy Galli: I do. You can get in touch with me right at here, firstname.lastname@example.org. And you can follow Keep Moving Forward social media - Facebook, Instagram and Twitter - @keepmovingforwardpodcast. You can follow me, @katygalli45. It's the number four and five because that was Rudy Ruettiger's number. And you can go to keepmovingforward.us and subscribe on iTunes to my podcast.
Corey Rieck: Katy, thank you very much. Continued success. You've been a great guest. Thanks so much for everything you do.
Katy Galli: Thank you, Corey.
Corey Rieck: All right, Rhonda, how are you this morning?
Rhonda Small: I'm great. Thank you so much for having me.
Corey Rieck: Well, we're here with Rhonda Small now, who has a vast amount of experience in businesses with families. And just a really incredible story. And you graduated from the University of Wisconsin in Madison, right?
Rhonda Small: I did. I think I got in when all you needed was a pulse. Today, University of Wisconsin is a lot harder to get into.
Corey Rieck: I don't believe that.
Rhonda Small: It's a great school. It's a great school.
Corey Rieck: It is, yeah. And not coincidentally, I think I shared with you my niece, Morgan, is graduating from Law School there this weekend. So, I will be-.
Rhonda Small: Wonderful program.
Corey Rieck: I'll be going up there to engage with those festivities. But did you grow up in Wisconsin?
Rhonda Small: I did.
Corey Rieck: Is that how you landed there?
Rhonda Small: I did. I'm a native Wisconsinite.
Corey Rieck: Whereabouts?
Rhonda Small: I was born and raised in a town called Racine, which is-
Corey Rieck: I know exactly where it is.
Rhonda Small: Racine, yeah. It's kind of between Milwaukee and not quite Chicago. It's cozy little further south, but it's on the lake. It's a very nice town. It's an old town. It was a great place to grow up. It really was. I was blessed.
Corey Rieck: So, let me ask the important question. Are you a Bears fan or a Packers?
Rhonda Small: Oh, come on. You don't even need to ask that. You have to be-
Corey Rieck: So, you're a Bear's fan?
Rhonda Small: No, no, no, no. Packers all the way.
Corey Rieck: Well, they're not going anywhere this year.
Rhonda Small: No.
Corey Rieck: They're not going to beat my Vikings. Let's just get that out.
Rhonda Small: Hold the faith, hold the faith.
Corey Rieck: All right. So, you started off working corporate.
Rhonda Small: I did.
Corey Rieck: Dow Chemica, Carter Wallace. Tell us about your experience there.
Rhonda Small: Well, when I graduated from University of Wisconsin, I actually took my first job at a radio station selling airtime. It was a tough economic situation back in the early ... Well, the late '70s. Once I decided that I really don't want to sell airtime for my entire life, I went into the corporate world, and I had some very good experiences. I sold, primarily, immunology products because I worked in a hospital lab all while I was going to school. So, it was kind of a marriage between what I did just working my way through school and after I got my degree. And then, I met my husband, who was a Southerner, and he said, "You really don't want to stay in this tundra, do you?" And I said, "Well, probably not." So, I got transplanted to the south.
Corey Rieck: When did you move to Georgia?
Rhonda Small: '82.
Corey Rieck: '82.
Rhonda Small: 1982.
Corey Rieck: Was that a hard transition moving from Midwest to here?
Rhonda Small: Well, it was because all of my family, all of my friends were primarily up in Wisconsin. And I don't tell many people this at first. A whole lot more people are knowing now. But I only saw my husband three times and we got married. So, I really didn't have a friendship base with him because I didn't know really a whole lot about him or his family.
Corey Rieck: Well, he must have been a tremendous salesman?
Rhonda Small: Well, he was more than a tremendous salesman. He's a tremendous guy. But-
Corey Rieck: Yeah.
Rhonda Small: So, when I when I moved to Georgia, fortunately, I got a transfer with my job with Dow Chemical. So, work kept me busy. My husband started different businesses. And then, we had children and opened up our first Harley Davidson dealership in 1986.
Corey Rieck: Where did you do that?
Rhonda Small: [00:21:41] Well, here in Atlanta. Our first dealership was in Smyrna, which we later moved to Marietta. And along between that dealership moving, we had another son. So, I have two boys. So, I helped out somewhat with the dealerships during that period, but not extensively because we had young children. So, we opened up another dealership, and then another dealership. Things like that happened. And I wasn't really actively involved in the dealership. I knew what was going on. I would help out if they needed it. But primarily, I was staying home with the boys.
Corey Rieck: When you helped out the dealerships, what what roles and tasks were you performing?
Rhonda Small: Really, I would come in on Saturdays if we were having special events and just help out wherever they needed it. If I needed to help somebody fit them for a helmet, fit them for a jacket, help with motorcycle parts, whatever it was. But I wasn't there on a full-time basis. But when we did have events, it would draw very large crowds. So, we really needed all hands on deck.
Corey Rieck: How many Harley Davidson dealerships did you own, did your family owned?
Rhonda Small: Well, we had two here in Atlanta. We also had a Honda dealership in South Carolina. And my husband was partners in some other entities.
Corey Rieck: Did you have one entity, or one partnership, or one business that you liked better than another?
Rhonda Small: Well, I think that the Marietta store always held a place in my heart because it was our first dealership. And we opened that dealership right after our first son was born. We developed so many good friendship customers. I mean, I know that customers really aren't your friends, vice versa, but the Harley industry is a little unique in that way where your customer base is family. And that's one of the premises of Harley-Davidson and one of the beauties of them that they are one group of people. One day, just ironically, I was waiting for my husband to go to lunch, and I was looking at the parts counter, and there was two men in business suits, and there was a couple of guys who clearly were construction workers, there was a woman, and they were all talking. And when we left, I told my husband, I said, "Where do you see in a business where there is this different dynamics of people, ages, whatever, and they were all just happy as clams talking about bikes?"
Corey Rieck: It seems to me that the Harley Davidson brand, they've done a tremendous job with their brand, but it's kind of a galvanizing thing because that is a big connecting point with people. I mean, it seems to me that everybody knows, "Oh, it's a Harley Davidson bike," as opposed to X bike or Y bike. And it has this-
Rhonda Small: Sound of thunder.
Corey Rieck: Yeah, it has this aura of quality, and kinship, and family. I mean, I don't even ride a motorcycle.
Rhonda Small: I could fix that.
Corey Rieck: I'm sure you could. But they've just done a lot of things really well in addition to making a great product - the branding and just the the mystique of owning a Harley.
Rhonda Small: It is the whole package. It's the nostalgia. It's the camaraderie. It's the family of it. You will not find a more generous giving group of people than Harley riders.
Corey Rieck: Yeah, yeah. That has been my experience also. Now, you owned a separate business in Marietta.
Rhonda Small: I did. I got involved with a business in Marietta. There were five of us. A woman that I knew through my church, whose husband bought this old house, and it was a great house, and he was gonna tear it down. And she was, "That would make a great gift shop kind of thing." And he said, "Well, you're not doing it by yourself." She said, "Well, if I can get four other people with me, will you not tear the house down?" So, she got us, and we opened up a business called the White Rabbit Cottage, which was great. My husband's problem with it was I was spending as much at the mart on our own house as I was probably putting merchandise in there. And we got involved in other dealerships and things that got very busy. So, I did back out of that, but it was just a lot of fun.
Corey Rieck: We've had a lot of fast business experience. And I think you and your husband were instrumental in starting a call center.
Rhonda Small: We were in the Virgin Islands. It was other dealers. We fell in love with the Virgin Islands, and so did some other dealers. We went down there for a meeting, and they said, "Wouldn't it be nice to be able to do something down here?" And it was at a point where St. Croix was still economically not very strong after Hugo trying to rebuild. So, they had a program down there called EDC, the Economic Development Corporation, where we opened up a business and hired locals. And we were a call center to the motorcycle industry, not just our own, but any variety.
So, if you purchased a motorcycle, purchased a product or parts, and you got that call back, which you frequently do from other businesses, your car industry, whatever, and say, "How is your service?" that kind of thing, the call was actually originated in the Virgin Islands, but it would essentially sound like it came from the actual dealerships.
Corey Rieck: How did you decide to locate it there?
Rhonda Small: Well, through the Economic Development Corporation, it allowed us to have a home down there and, basically, live down there for quite a while.
Corey Rieck: Did you find that that gave you the feedback that it required? Did it help you in your business, the feedback that you got from clients that just recently had service or interaction with you?
Rhonda Small: Actually, it did. And I'll tell you why. In your business, if you have someone in your business that is making these calls, and they get some negative feedback, and that person with the negative feedback is right in the next office from you, they're not as likely to tell you, "Hey, we may have an issue here," that kind of thing. It didn't happen often, but we found that having more of a third party do it, we got very honest feedback, we got direct feedback, and they were very concise because that's all they did. So, they could pick up on a lot of things quicker. And by having it in the Virgin Islands, I don't really know how to explain it, but the people there ended up really feeling like they worked for you in that business and they had a deep love of your business. So, it worked well.
Corey Rieck: That's outstanding. Do you still have the call center?
Rhonda Small: No. Some of the dealerships like myself, we're no longer owners. And most of the people that were involved in that have also sold their dealerships. So, we disbanded.
Corey Rieck: You've had some experience with transition and family businesses well over the last 10-11 years. Would you mind sharing with us what that entailed?
Rhonda Small: Well, my husband was killed in a crash about 10 years ago. 10 years ago this October. And at the time, he also had cancer. but he didn't die from that. He died in the crash. And at the time, having cancer, you think, well, you always have more time, things were doing a little better. So, when he died, it was very obviously unexpected. And from a business standpoint, I was not deeply involved in the dealerships at that point. I was superficially with my husband, talking about different things, blah, blah, blah, but I wasn't there on a day-to-day basis.
Rhonda Small: So I found myself kind of plunged into the deep end of the pool. At that point, we had several hundred employees, and I remember going there, and telling them what had happened, and looking at all of them, and all I want to do is just let me crawl in a hole for a little while and figure this out. But then, when I looked at all of that and I thought, "Oh my. These people have families. They want to know that they're secure." So, it was a tough time. It was a tough time. I had two boys that were 18 and 21 at the time that when they lose their dad, the whole thing is bad.
Corey Rieck: How old was your husband when he passed?
Rhonda Small: 57.
Corey Rieck: What were some of the first things you did after your husband's passing to transition the business, to get control of it, to get perspective on it? What what were some of the first things you did?
Rhonda Small: Well, when you own a dealership with Harley Davidson, it's not a franchise, it's a dealership agreement. And thankfully, I was on the paperwork for all of that. But something interesting did happen. We had someone who was supposed to go to a class, and one of the employees got a call, and they wanted the credit card, and that employee at that time mentioned that the name on the credit card was real small, but that he was deceased. Well, I don't know what happened, but it triggered like a shutdown of banking and the whole nine yards. It was incredible.
Corey Rieck: Wow!
Rhonda Small: Yeah. So, since my husband died out of state, and it was going to take a while to get him back, paperwork back, whatever, I learned a lesson of every person, man, woman should have their own bank account. They should have their own credit card, even if you only use it to keep it open, and you should have a stash cash. I mean, I was not in a bad financial situation, thankfully. But I've told a lot of my friends, everything that I had was tied to my husband. My name and his name were on everything. So, it's really not a bad idea to have some separation there.
Rhonda Small: But once we got a lot of the legal things under control, I learned that I had to just dive in with both feet and take a hold. Thankfully, we had wonderful managers. Without that, I don't think that I would have survived. I had a team of people who were very supportive. It was a well-oiled machine, thanks to how my husband ran things. And we carried on.
Corey Rieck: Yeah, you clearly have done that under some extraordinary circumstances. How did you rectify and handle everything sort of being frozen after they learned of your husband's passing?
Rhonda Small: Well, I couldn't do anything until I got a death certificate.
Corey Rieck: Yeah.
Rhonda Small: And it had to come from the State of New York, which is where he passed away. But it took probably two weeks. And anybody that runs a business, you know that having bank accounts in limbo for two weeks can not be a great situation. So, thankfully, I appealed to different people at banks and said, "Hey, you gotta play ball with me here." And they were helpful, but it was a shock because that was one of the things that I never in a million years would have thought I would have to worry about. I had one hundred other things, but not that. But I really think it's important for all people to have things in order, have a box where you have everything. And like I said, have a checking account in your own name, even if you keep a minimal amount in there.
Corey Rieck: What were some of the things that you needed to do once that got sorted out, the banking and things being frozen? What were the events that led you to divest yourself of the dealerships in your family?
Rhonda Small: Well, I had the business in St. Croix. So, we were living down there. I had a son in college in Orlando. I had two elderly parents that my sister was trying to deal with. So, I literally made a run from Atlanta, to Orlando, to St. Croix, to Wisconsin and back. And I did that for quite a while. We had talked to our general manager about purchasing the dealerships before my husband passed away. So, unfortunately, in 2008, we all know that the economy was just not great. So, in order to make a lot of these things happen, they didn't happen when we wanted to. So, I stayed on as dealer principal for several more years until we could get everything lined up for our manager to, then, assume ownership of the dealerships. So, it was just a matter of making sure that everything at all different points were running smoothly. And going through all that, the death of a spouse, still having a teenager, having businesses in different locations, selling to the manager was really a good thing at that time.
Corey Rieck: You have other interests that you devote your time to do?
Rhonda Small: I do. I do. I own an airport, which was something that my husband purchased. Eventually, when he retired, wanted to make it a flying community, have some houses there, and just have people who love aviation. And I also got very involved with the Esophageal Cancer Awareness Association. My husband had esophageal cancer, which is a cancer I had never heard of until he was diagnosed. And then, when I found out what it was, he could've been the poster child for it. There's a lot of other people out there who, unfortunately, could be poster children too and don't know about this cancer. So, I'm on the board of directors for that.
Corey Rieck: You've had some tremendous life experiences. You've done a great job of managing in some difficult situations and I just want to commend you for that. If you could give the younger version of Rhondda some advice, knowing what you know now, what would that be?
Rhonda Small: I would have gotten involved more with some kind of a charitable organization earlier. My husband and I did a lot of philanthropy as dealers to all different kinds of charities, but we never really focused on one, like I have about esophageal cancer. My mom had heart disease. I wish that back in the day, when I was younger, I would have gotten more involved with the Heart Association or another charity because I think that it helps you build a lot of different things with your character, with life experiences. After hearing Katy talk so much about what she's learned at a young life, I think that that would have been a good thing for me to get involved in earlier. I didn't do it soon enough.
Corey Rieck: If there was a young lady that wanted to follow a similar track, what advice would you give her?
Rhonda Small: I would probably say when things get thrown at you, they're not problems. There are things that you can step forward and learn from. And if you get flustered, if you get sidetracked, if you let them, the ball's getting thrown at you, totally keep your focus, and all you're doing is looking at the balls that are thrown at you instead of the ones that are going beside you and not hitting you. You miss opportunities. And I think that when you get flustered and when you get frustrated, you're not seeing an opportunity, you're looking at a problem. And it took me a while to learn that.
Corey Rieck: Rhonda, you've been a great guest, and you're a testament to persevering, and hanging in there, and just sucking up, and getting things done. If somebody wanted to get a hold of you either via e-mail or your phone, how would they do that?
Rhonda Small: Well, thank you for asking. I am on the Board of Directors for Esophageal Cancer Awareness Association. You can get me through ecaware.org. I can also be reached at Stockmar Airport, which is in Villa Rica. It's one of only 34 privately owned general aviation airports left in the country. And I'm happy to talk to anyone. So, thank you so much for letting me come in.
Corey Rieck: You've been a great guest. And thanks so much for taking some time with us this morning, Rhonda.
Rhonda Small: Thank you.
Corey Rieck: You're welcome. Lindsey, how are you?
Lindsey Cambardella: I'm doing very well. How are you?
Corey Rieck: I'm great. Lindsey Cambardella is the Chief Executive Officer of Translation Station.
Lindsey Cambardella: That's correct.
Corey Rieck: So, what does Translation Station do, Lindsey?
Lindsey Cambardella: Sure. So, we are what we call a language service provider. Some people say language service company. And we have a full range of services. If you need an interpreter, which is in spoken language exchange or a translation, which is a document language exchange, w can do any of that. We can do transcription from videos. The A to Z of language service needs. However, our bread and butter is onsite interpreting for several industry or any industry, really. But our biggest clients are the legal sector, the medical sector, and the education sector.
Corey Rieck: So, if I was a non-English speaking person, and I needed some medical care, you might send somebody out there to kind of tell me, sort of translate what the doctor saying to me? Is that kind of what you would be doing?
Lindsey Cambardella: That's exactly right. So, health insurance companies and medical providers are obligated by federal law to provide interpreters for their patients who need them. So, we have relationships actually with the medical providers as opposed to the individuals who need the service. And they make the requests to our company. And then, we send the interpreter to that appointment to interpret everything that the doctor, or nurse, et cetera is saying.
Corey Rieck: How did you get into this business? This is very, very unique it seems to me.
Lindsey Cambardella: It is. And believe it or not, it started with a trip to Costco one day.
Corey Rieck: Doesn't everything?
Lindsey Cambardella: I spent five years as a practicing attorney. And about four years into that, I knew that this was not going to be my lifetime career. I wanted to transition into business, but I'm the kind of person who likes to be prepared and do my research before making the leap. And so-
Corey Rieck: Yeah, I never would have picked up on that interacting with you.
Lindsey Cambardella: So, at the four year mark, I had the opportunity to take a part time job as a staff attorney with a court. And so, that gave me Tuesdays and Fridays off every week. And the plan was to spend the year evaluating the business ideas that I had. And several months into that process, I ran into a guy named Jeremy Stollman that I went to high school with here in Atlanta. We went to Dunwoody High School. Go Wildcats! And I told him all of what I just told you, and also that I had moved to Chamblee recently, and he said, "My mother has a business in Chamblee. Maybe she's got some advice for you about starting a business." So, I went to go meet her. And the long story short, as our conversation evolved from her advising me on how to start a business to her going, "I'm 74 and I'd like to retire. Could I persuade you to join my business instead?" And she did. She's a good saleswoman.
Corey Rieck: Obviously. So, how has practicing law ... when did you know you needed to do something different? Because I think, transitioning, that's an important consideration here. You went to school to be a practicing attorney. You had some experience. And then you decide, "Hey, I need to move in another direction."
Lindsey Cambardella: Sure. So, I worked for two small firms. They were both solo practitioners before I came along. Both incredibly bright, incredibly hard working, but also both 15 or 20 years older than I was. And it appeared to me that it was just a difficult slog to be an attorney, and the work of an attorney is difficult to leverage. And frankly, I just wanted to work smarter, not harder either in an industry with a service that could be leveraged more easily or a product. And so, I just knew that I wasn't any smarter or harder working than those two. And I just couldn't see myself doing it for the next 30 years.
Lindsey Cambardella: And I will say that one experience that I had earlier in my life really helped me to leave law because people thought I was crazy. You just went to law school, you have all these student loans, you passed the bar, you did all these things, and you're just gonna walk away. Are you crazy? And my first career path was actually to be a college professor. I was in a joint Master's/PhD program studying criminology. And about a year and a half into the program, at that point, I had learned what it was like to be a professor, and I decided this was not for me. And that was a difficult decision to make. And afterwards, I realized that quitting was okay. And because of that, I was able to ultimately quit the practice of law. And I'm, now, in a position where I'm very excited, and I love the idea of learning this business and business generally and the many, many doors that it opens for me. So, I've forgotten the question at this point. I'm so sorry. Hopefully, I covered it.
Corey Rieck: No, it covered it. And I was wondering about the transition from law into your current business. So, it seems to me because of your training, because of your high level of intellect, there must be some things that you've learned that you can leverage having been trained as a lawyer in your current business. Is that true?
Lindsey Cambardella: Absolutely. Being a lawyer teaches you to be extremely thorough. That was my nature already, but it teaches you a lot about business in a way. I worked for small businesses, so I saw the way that those operated. I also had worked for clients who had small businesses evaluating contracts for them. So, those are certainly some skills that I put to use in my work today. But a lot of what I learned about business, there's a lot of intuition and gut that you have to use for it. Working hard, I can never say enough for that. But also, my husband and his family, they're all very entrepreneurial. So, I draw a lot from them as well as from reading and listening to podcasts.
Corey Rieck: I think it's commendable that you had the strength to transition both from trying to be a professor. I don't look at it as quitting, frankly. Transition, I think, is a more accurate term. And I think that's very intelligent on your part. I mean, why do something that you know in your gut is not for you. And it seems like that was the case, right?
Lindsey Cambardella: Yes, exactly.
Corey Rieck: I mean, that's what a smart person does, in my opinion.
Lindsey Cambardella: Well, thank you. In the moment, it's hard to see that necessarily quitting ... it's scary when you're in the moment. But afterwards, you look back and you think, "Thank goodness I did that."
Corey Rieck: Well, you can certainly provide sound advice for people that are transitioning, or are looking at a line of thinking, or some reasoning there. How has technology affected what your company does?
Lindsey Cambardella: So, at present, I'd say, we've just had to add ... the company, I joined on November 2017. So, just about six months ago. So, I was not involved in the adding of services to allow for more technology-based interpreting and translating. But to this point, that's where technology has affected the company and the industry. But going forward, there are huge questions about the industry and how much artificial intelligence is going to play a role in both translation and interpretation, and it's very scary. I sort of waffle personally between this sort of fear that it's coming more quickly than we anticipate. And then, also this sort of coming back down to earth, hopefully, which says, yes, the technology is coming, but it takes time to transition.
Lindsey Cambardella: Our clients are industries that are usually sort of later in terms of adopting new technologies because they have to be very sure that the new technology is working. When you're talking about someone's physical health or their legal status, whether they'd be incarcerated or even the death penalty, you have to be pretty darn sure that that interpretation device is as accurate as a human would be before they're going to be willing to commit to that. So, I think we have some time, but we'd also be foolish not to be thinking about how to incorporate new technologies into our business and how we need to evolve with it.
Corey Rieck: Won't there always be a requirement, a human requirement, someone like you or somebody that works for your organization to kind of provide and fill in the blanks for the technology?
Lindsey Cambardella: If I knew that, I think I'd be the most wanted lady in the industry. It sure feels that way, at least, for the near future, but I don't know. Anything is possible. And I don't have the background in AI or technology to really fully understand just how close we are. But we'll probably see a shift in to an area where we have machines doing it, and then humans sort of on the back end reviewing the work of the machine, so that the volume of work the human is doing is lower, but not zero.
Corey Rieck: Who would your ideal target client be?
Lindsey Cambardella: So, any client, we welcome you to contact us. But our ideal client is probably a larger one, mostly because that way, we get to learn their needs, and really be the best agents of customer service that we can. We have some clients that the owner, Phyllis Stollman, has had since the beginning in 1998. And as a result, we know exactly what they need before they need it. And we're able to just provide excellent service for them. And of course, the larger the client, the higher the revenue as well, which works great for us because it allows us to work to secure the best interpreters because we know we're gonna have work to keep them busy, and we can keep them happy and on our roster.
Corey Rieck: So, would clinics and hospitals, would they be good ideal clients or?
Lindsey Cambardella: Yes, definitely in clinics and hospitals, other health insurance providers who have even wider swaths of territory. We really like working with the county court systems and, also, the public schools. We do a lot of work with them where it's parent-teacher conferences usually is what it is. So, both for special education students and other students.
Corey Rieck: I wish my teacher would have spoken Spanish during my parent-teachers conferences because, then, my parents would have been able to be fully clued in on what I was up to or not up to, more importantly speaking. But just a fascinating business. Are dental offices, are they good clients for you or?
Lindsey Cambardella: Sure, yeah. We certainly have some dental offices as clients, and we would be happy to help them.
Corey Rieck: So, if someone will need your services, obviously, they don't speak English as a first language. They need somebody to interpret medicine matters or legal matters. You do a lot of work legally? A lot of interpreting for legal matters?
Lindsey Cambardella: So, yes, a lot of our work is actually in the court systems themselves. So, at hearings, having interpreters there from start to finish. But then, we also work with attorneys offices doing depositions or translation of documents that might be relevant to the case. Really, just anything they need. Occasionally, they'll have us interpret meetings between the attorney and the client. Sometimes, though, they'll go with a friend or family member for those meetings, but for the official depositions and hearings, you need a professional interpreter.
Corey Rieck: So, what's it like to transition to take on someone else's business?
Lindsey Cambardella: It's a big responsibility. So, Phyllis started the company in 1998 in her basement, a few years after losing her husband. She had a young son, Jeremy, who I mentioned. And there was a layoff at her work. And so, she decided to just take control of her financial life. And she started this business very bravely and grew it, outgrew her basement. I think she had six people working in her basement at one point. Then, they moved to an office in Doraville. And then, three years ago outgrew that, and we moved to downtown Chamblee. She calls it her baby. And she very much loves her business, loves the industry, loves the interpreters, her clients. And so, it's a very big responsibility. I'm honored to be in the position that I'm in. And I must also commend her for giving me a lot of freedom to follow my vision and not be so tethered to hers. It's been a tremendous experience so far. And I'm just so excited to see where we're going.
Corey Rieck: What do you like best about what you do?
Lindsey Cambardella: I have to say, at least, at present, I'm learning so much about business. I'm learning a lot from Phyllis. I'm learning a lot from my colleagues who are all ... there's very low turnover at our company, which is a testament to how it's run. But I think that that has been excellent, as well as the service of interpreting and translating is a very heartfelt one. You're helping people when they're in typically a vulnerable position, and they would otherwise not understand what was happening. And without a professional interpreter or translator, they could be very negatively affected. One of the things that's been interesting to look back on is that my work as an attorney, I feel like I was an interpreter of sorts. I'm helping them to understand the legal language that they did not understand. And that just is sort of analogous to the work that I see the interpreters and translators doing now. So, it's very good work.
Corey Rieck: Your organization seems, based on what you've said here, you have business in the public schools, you have business in the court system, and business in the medical arena. Is there one aspect of your business that resonates more with you than another or one that you like doing more?
Lindsey Cambardella: I certainly feel most closely connected to the legal work, given my background as an attorney. So, there's that piece. But I think in the medical side as well, the same vulnerabilities exist, and it just feels good when we know that we are sending a qualified interpreter in there to help them through whatever medical challenge they're facing.
Corey Rieck: How many employees does your organization have?
Lindsey Cambardella: We have 11 employees. And they are primarily doing scheduling and accounting work. But then, we have hundreds of independent contractors who provide all of the interpreting and translating work.
Corey Rieck: We talked a little bit about AI, artificial intelligence. What other changes have you had to make since you took over last November? Or what changes do you foresee?
Lindsey Cambardella: Sure. Again, this is the big question of our industry. And so, in six months time, I have not been able to make those big decisions about which direction we're heading. At this stage, what I've been focusing on is really learning the business itself, learning the industry, and we're going through kind of a ... not a reorganization, but a little bit of a remodeling, kind of adopting new software for scheduling, and getting our scheduling software to communicate with our accounting software, doing little things to help make us more efficient, so that we can better service our clients and more efficiently.
Corey Rieck: With regard to business development, how are you getting new business?
Lindsey Cambardella: So, new business comes first in several ways. We have to monitor RFPs to see what county or other agencies are needing our services. So, that's definitely a big one. Another is just getting out there and networking. Any business could use our services, whether it's to translate their website or manuals that they have for their employees. There is probably a need for every business out there. So, really, when I first came into it, I started thinking from this standpoint of meeting people and trying to get a sale, I quickly learned that that's not the way to do it. It's just to meet people, get to know them, build relationships, and the business will come. So, that's been my personal approach. I'm not very comfortable in a more traditional or caricature version of a salesperson. And actually, I think, that's what you're doing, Corey. You're building relationships and let that lead your business.
Corey Rieck: You've started a group for women business owners. Tell us about that.
Lindsey Cambardella: So, about a year ago, when I was still planning to start my own business, I wanted to be around other women like me. I didn't have any friends who had started businesses or family members. So, I really wanted to be around other business owners and, specifically, women. And I could go downtown or midtown and go to groups there, but I wanted to not have to travel very far. And so, I posted on nextdoor.com and I said, "Does anyone know of a group nearby?" And about 50 people responded and said, "No, but I'm interested. So, if you start one, let me know."
Lindsey Cambardella: And so, out of that was born what we call The Village. We meet once a month, and we bring in a speaker for lunch on a topic relevant to small businesses. And then, we operate out of a Facebook group. So, throughout the month, people can post issues they're having, or books they read, other resources, so that within our small community of kind of Chamblee and really close nearby, we have resources. And it's been tremendous. We have this little network of of women. And I run into them because they're in my neighborhood, and it's just terrific.
Corey Rieck: That's great. We appreciate that. If you could advise the younger version of you 5-10 years ago, give her some advice, what would you tell her?
Lindsey Cambardella: I would tell her to do a better job of believing in herself. I was always the person who wanted to study for the tests or prepare, and that's still with me, but it was hard for me to think about taking the leap, and believing that those opportunities were for me and not for other people. So, I would certainly say believe that you are are worthy and good enough. Along the same lines, to take risks. Again, I'm just always been pretty calculated in my moves, although it's working so far, I guess. And lastly, the thing that I've adopted lately is done is better than perfect. I have this sort of paralysis by analysis that gets me a lot, but I'm working on it, and I am getting better. And I would recommend the book, The Paradox of Choice. Anyone who also suffers from that, it really helped me.
Corey Rieck: If there was a young lady that wanted to follow your career path, what would you tell her?
Lindsey Cambardella: So, Katy used the word perseverance in her answer, and that is certainly the one that stands out for me at the top. I think that there's always gonna be someone smarter than you in the room, more creative, but the thing that really gets you moving forward apart from the crowd is that grit, that perseverance. I'd also say that opportunities are everywhere. You just have to open your eyes and be willing to grab them. And another is that networking begins now. A relationship that I had in high school has now given me the opportunity that I'm in now, and I rely a lot on folks that I've known over them for many years, and I've been fortunate that I'm an Atlanta Native. So, a lot of relationships I've had from various points have come in handy. Lastly, I would say the world needs leaders. Why not you?
Corey Rieck: Well, Lindsey, you've been a tremendous guest. If somebody wanted to get a hold of you, either via email or phone, how would they do that?
Lindsey Cambardella: So, Lindsey Cambardella, I'm the only one. If you can spell it, you can find me on LinkedIn or Facebook. And then, translationstation.com is our website. We also have a Facebook page. And my email is email@example.com.
Corey Rieck: Lindsey, you've been a tremendous guest. Also, thank you again to Rhonda and Katy. It's been another great Tuesdays with Corey. Appreciate it. Drive safe. Have a great day, everybody.
Katy Galli: Thank you.
Rhonda Small: Thank you.
Katy Galli: And, of course, just real quick, Tuesdays with Corey would not be made possible without The Long Term Care Planning Group. So, Corey, if someone wanted to learn more about The Long Term Care Planning , where would they do that?
Corey Rieck: Well, they could email me at firstname.lastname@example.org or they could go to the website at www.thelongtermcareplanninggroup.com
Katy Galli: Oh, great. Thank you guys all for listening. And we will see you all next time on Atlanta Business Radio.